Forum Suggestion Visible proofs / evidences in ban thread

[Demon]

I agree with miyeon suggestion, plus sometimes we need to beg in order for you to show us our own proof…

I remember the “masked cheat” bans

 

[Stan]

:aloha:
I've cast my vote for option 'C' as it's really... well to say it straight in both cases there will be hidden proofs!
Most of hidden proofs are hidden for reason and that's the way that should be... In the case you've bring up as example even tho the post was deleted, there was one quote of the msg that was still visible (it was only 1 when i've checked it for the 1st and last time) but yet that's enough even plenty as the banned user/s always know the exact reason they are banned for (no matter hacks, flaming, advertising, etc.) and imo specially in the cases of flaming there is no need at all to make the proof visible and everyone can read it as that will eliminate the need of deleting that post/s, comments, etc. and tbh if you ban someone for bad doing and let the deed visible for everyone well that's kind of eliminates the need of ban in first place.
Yet as few guys already said prove can be provident in some cases via PM.
So if the main reason for that pool is curiosity... Then i feel ya!
If it's for transparency, again leaving the quotes are more than enough.
But yes somethings should stay hidden..

Regards <3

 

[Tobλ]

Another way of looking at it is this: Imagine someone just wrote a really nasty message with a lot of insults, we delete it so that it doesn't stain our forums. We don't need to exactly put a picture of it in the ban thread as proofs since it is really an eye sore and we don't want other players seeing such stupid messages. Get me? xd But for anyone who's way too curious, they can just request for the proof via a PM. I don't see a problem in that.

 

[Mashka]

it’s a strange topic, you can always write RESiSTANT and he will help you with answers about the ban, there wasn’t a single moment when he didn’t explain something, was this topic simply created to protect Viola? I don't think anyone here just banned it. he talked a lot here and got people hooked) every day he writes annoying messages)

 

[Demon]

it’s a strange topic, you can always write RESiSTANT and he will help you with answers about the ban, there wasn’t a single moment when he didn’t explain something, was this topic simply created to protect Viola? I don't think anyone here just banned it. he talked a lot here and got people hooked) every day he writes annoying messages)

If you read the whole thread you would of understand before replying that it has nothing to do with viola case, and sure, pm resistance for answers although if its not about donations i would suggest to pm any of the 2 admins @Dimer or @Tobλ …

 

[Tomioka]

I agree, apart from that there are things that some people are completely unaware of and it wouldn't be bad if the reason for the ban was also detailed by the staff, apart I would like to add the following, gentlemen of the staff, it is known that you have a hard job in detecting and examining in detail the gameplay of each person (and that is respected and admired a lot since you want the game to be totally clean and legal without abusing "X" programs that perhaps people with bad intentions use), but it wouldn't hurt, before completely banning someone, to make a warning, leave a private message, and if possible do a PC check so that the ban is given with 100% precision, that's my humble opinion, good day

 

[Nodaway]

Something that I think they should add is the names of the other characters on the account that is banned, because for example if someone was fighting another character who was not the one with whom they were banned, and saw and reported something suspicious and his tests were not sufficient, and then it turns out that he was banned by another who did achieve something that one had already seen before, so that he also had an experience to take into account when recording something.
This would also help those who have reported someone suspicious and were unsuccessful that they were not wrong.
it's just an opinion.
Cheers!

 

[Miyeon]

was this topic simply created to protect Viola?

here is your answer @Mashka . Hope you are satisfy.

If you wanma know am i curios about Viola's case, make a Question thread and i will answer you there

For @Stan and @Tobλ , i'd like to ask few questions:
1. Is it MY AND EVERY NORMAL PLAYER RIGHT to check the ban is fair enough? If your answer is NO, and we are forced to follow it and are not allowed to express our opinions, this topic can close immediately. If YES, let's go to next question.

2. How can i check the ban is fair enough without seeing its proofs? There is advantage that hidden proof, i do not deny it.

I agree that not all proofs must be visible, however, a part of it must be.

3.

specially in the cases of flaming there is no need at all to make the proof visible and everyone can read it as that will eliminate the need of deleting that post/s

Is it mean the purpose of hidden proof is preventing player seeing it, to protect us? Then i am very grateful to you and staff team. However, we are all adults, we know what is right what is wrong

4. Again, with proof, we can give our opinion about the ban to staff, UNLESS you don't want to hear from us. With proof, everyone can validate that if staffs do right or not, is that player deserves that ban, the ban duration is following the rules, etc.

I had a question above, perhaps @Dimer @Tobλ @Khaled the staff leader may answer it for me later?

I do create a poll in this thread, so everyone can share their thought about my suggestion. And you say that you and MOD team will allow it or not, then i wonder if our opinions are being heard or not? If 90% vote is Yes and MOD team said No then the answer will be NO?

Visible proofs / evidences in ban thread

Dear Staff Team, The most important of a ban thread, is proofs of banned player. In some thread, everyone can easy see the proof (e.g: video with youtube link). However, there are many ban threads that its evidences are not viewable for everyone as it should be (e.g: HERE) Yes it may be a...

forum.infinitymu.net

Thanks everyone else for your opinions btw.

 

[Nikki]

@Miyeon
Not everyone who plays this game is an adult.
When a ban is hidden, there are valid reasons for it, it has been this way for a long time.
You should also know that game servers have no obligation to create public ban threads.
By joining the game, you agreed to the rules, and being banned means you violated one of them.

Even larger corporations don’t create ban threads.
Instead, they notify the banned player directly via email, providing the reason and duration of the ban.
They might also allow you to appeal, but if you were banned for hacking or if this isn’t your first offense, they often won’t even review your appeal.

This is my 2cents about it.

 

[Miyeon]

@Miyeon
Not everyone who plays this game is an adult.
When a ban is hidden, there are valid reasons for it, it has been this way for a long time.
You should also know that game servers have no obligation to create public ban threads.
By joining the game, you agreed to the rules, and being banned means you violated one of them.

Even larger corporations don’t create ban threads.
Instead, they notify the banned player directly via email, providing the reason and duration of the ban.
They might also allow you to appeal, but if you were banned for hacking or if this isn’t your first offense, they often won’t even review your appeal.

This is my 2cents about it.

You may misunderstood. My suggestion is about the "proofs / evidences in PUBLIC BAN". Talking about hidden ban is meaningless here. If the ban is hidden from normal players, whether the proofs is viewable or not, it doesn't matter anymore because we CAN NOT see them, the ban thread.

As a former Head Game Master and current Honorary Staff, may i ask for your opinions about my 4 question above? @Nikki

1. Is it MY AND EVERY NORMAL PLAYER RIGHT to check the ban is fair enough? If your answer is NO, and we are forced to follow it and are not allowed to express our opinions, this topic can close immediately. If YES, let's go to next question.

2. How can i check the ban is fair enough without seeing its proofs? There is advantage that hidden proof, i do not deny it.
3.
Is it mean the purpose of hidden proof is preventing player seeing it, to protect us? Then i am very grateful to you and staff team. However, we are all adults, we know what is right what is wrong

4. Again, with proof, we can give our opinion about the ban to staff, UNLESS you don't want to hear from us. With proof, everyone can validate that if staffs do right or not, is that player deserves that ban, the ban duration is following the rules, etc.

 

[Halfdanjal]

I actually did bring this up not so long ago with Mods, that when a message in SB is removed or any other content is removed, there is no harm in taking a snapshot of the offense and posting it in the ban thread. I see no harm in posting it, only exception being sensitive information like login details, advertisement for random sites or other servers and so on, which is a rarity. Since content is often being removed from public eyes, why not show people what did the user do to earn the ban. At least when it comes to forum bans, I don't see why would that be an issue in vast majority of cases, to post proof properly instead of saying that proof is deleted post in thread x.

 

[Nikki]

You may misunderstood. My suggestion is about the "proofs / evidences in PUBLIC BAN". Talking about hidden ban is meaningless here. If the ban is hidden from normal players, whether the proofs is viewable or not, it doesn't matter anymore because we CAN NOT see them, the ban thread.

As a former Head Game Master and current Honorary Staff, may i ask for your opinions about my 4 question above? @Nikki

My explanation was about the normal ban waves (game based.)

Regarding your questions: I will reply them on game based not on forum based.

1. Is it MY AND EVERY NORMAL PLAYER RIGHT to check the ban is fair enough? If your answer is NO, and we are forced to follow it and are not allowed to express our opinions, this topic can close immediately. If YES, let's go to next question.

When a ban is done, the proof is there, but not all the proof; when the proof is hidden its for a reason hidden. the the person who is banned do not agreed he can do a ban appeal.
When you see the ban thread as a outsider (normal member not involved with the ban.) you can not say if the ban was fair or not. the view about it is totally different .

2. How can i check the ban is fair enough without seeing its proofs? There is advantage that hidden proof, i do not deny it.

If its you that is banned you can request those from the person who banned you or from the admins.

3.
Is it mean the purpose of hidden proof is preventing player seeing it, to protect us? Then i am very grateful to you and staff team. However, we are all adults, we know what is right what is wrong

we are not all adults.

4. Again, with proof, we can give our opinion about the ban to staff, UNLESS you don't want to hear from us. With proof, everyone can validate that if staffs do right or not, is that player deserves that ban, the ban duration is following the rules, etc.

when a player gets banned he prob deserved it for 99% of the time. there is always a small human error that can be made.



and @Miyeon , again what I wrote above. Game servers are not obligated to provide ban threads, as in High corporate game servers you just receive a mail about your ban. game and forum.

 

[Luigir]

I think lastly to say, relevant visible proofs can be granted imo
you quoted an example in your first post, the deleted message, i know its not visible for everyone to understand the ban reason so yea, for such cases i think quoting or attaching some SS its fine, imo. (but again that is mod's field and decision)
But except of deleted messages, relevant proofs like Logins or detections and you even quoted some bans from our Lvguard system, definitely not an option and never will be but the banned user has always the right to know why is he banned and tbh we always had that option. We did received PMs with questions about a ban reason for cheating or advertising and in my case for example i answered many PMs, first making sure they own the account and finally providing the answer they deserve, simple.

Again and this is my final opinion, as SGM there won't be an option for visible proofs for cheating or advertising, that's my position, period.

 

[Miyeon]

When you see the ban thread as a outsider (normal member not involved with the ban.) you can not say if the ban was fair or not. the view about it is totally different .

Oh Nikki, i will debate with you on game based. @Nikki
The ban decision, was made by GM Team. They has been given the power, to keep the game clean, and PROTECT NORMAL PLAYER. I'd use the word "PROTECT" but our Admin Dimer aka your BOSS chose the word "SERVE".

What kind of "SERVE" is that? Why can not i say if the ban was fair or not? If i say the ban is not fair, i assume that you have to explain me, not by telling me that i don't have my right to say anything about your decision.

Post automatically merged: December 30th , 2024

I think lastly to say, relevant visible proofs can be granted imo
you quoted an example in your first post, the deleted message, i know its not visible for everyone to understand the ban reason so yea, for such cases i think quoting or attaching some SS its fine, imo. (but again that is mod's field and decision)

thanks @Luigir so much for your opinion, i'm sure that MOD team is busy for discussing on it right now.
As a iMU player, i'd love to contribute to make the game better and better. I am very grateful because Staffs are always listening to player's opinion and suggestion.

I agree with miyeon suggestion, plus sometimes we need to beg in order for you to show us our own proof…

uh oh @Demon , As our Admin Toby said

Any player can request in private to see the proofs, except, of course, advertising proofs or, in some rare cases, cheating proofs that may contain sensitive information and other similar proofs.

It's your RIGHT to REQUEST the proofs, not BEG oki.

 

[Tobλ]

I am still failing to understand the point of this discussion. It has been explained a few times why ban proofs are sometimes hidden or simply visible to staff members. This system has been in use since, like forever? @Miyeon, why all of a sudden there is a problem with this and you didn't voice such concerns when you were in the staff (EM & Moderator)? Why does it become an issue when one of your friends / alliance mates gets banned? I can understand Viola's frustration and his attempts to stir up drama (his 'feuds' xd) like he always did for his own entertainment (also admitted to this), but this does look like trying to protect your own friend, which is very subjective and does not concern the server integrity like you are trying to portray it.

After his ban, he went on our Discord server, and we explained to him in detail why his message was considered bad. Imagine the surprise when he was banned by his own 'guild / alliance mate', @Khaled. If his message grabbed the attention of his guild friend and someone he's close to, then I must say this is already a sign or confirmation that his message was indeed bad.

My points still stands:

Mibobo, Mibobo. Have you forgotten? Any player can request in private to see the proofs, except, of course, advertising proofs or, in some rare cases, cheating proofs that may contain sensitive information and other similar proofs.

And I will add a second point to explain why the ban proofs for forum bans are sometimes visible only to Moderators:
Picture a post by someone that contains explicit words, insults, and possibly even racism. We remove the post so no one can see it because it's sore for players eyes, for a few players, it can be sensitive to see. Now tell me, what's the point of removing it in the first place if we just display it again in a ban thread? Beats the point, right?

If you do not agree with me on this, then discuss with me here and explain your side and reasons why.

Now regarding this:

It's my right, not interested or not.

It absolutely is. If you are curious little one, you can always request to see the proofs in private, as I mentioned.
It is not begging, @Demon, it's a formal way to ask, just like in real life. Begging looks way different. A lot of players asked for proofs like this a lot of times during iMU's history, and I didn't see anyone call it begging, up until now for some reason.

 

[Miyeon]

I am still failing to understand the point of this discussion. It has been explained a few times why ban proofs are sometimes hidden or simply visible to staff members. This system has been in use since, like forever? @Miyeon, why all of a sudden there is a problem with this and you didn't voice such concerns when you were in the staff (EM & Moderator)? Why does it become an issue when one of your friends / alliance mates gets banned? I can understand Viola's frustration and his attempts to stir up drama (his 'feuds' xd) like he always did for his own entertainment (also admitted to this), but this does look like trying to protect your own friend, which is very subjective and does not concern the server integrity like you are trying to portray it.

After his ban, he went on our Discord server, and we explained to him in detail why his message was considered bad. Imagine the surprise when he was banned by his own 'guild / alliance mate', @Khaled. If his message grabbed the attention of his guild friend and someone he's close to, then I must say this is already a sign or confirmation that his message was indeed bad.

My points still stands:




And I will add a second point to explain why the ban proofs for forum bans are sometimes visible only to Moderators:
Picture a post by someone that contains explicit words, insults, and possibly even racism. We remove the post so no one can see it because it's sore for players eyes, for a few players, it can be sensitive to see. Now tell me, what's the point of removing it in the first place if we just display it again in a ban thread? Beats the point, right?

If you do not agree with me on this, then discuss with me here and explain your side and reasons why.

Now regarding this:




It absolutely is. If you are curious little one, you can always request to see the proofs in private, as I mentioned.
It is not begging, @Demon, it's a formal way to ask, just like in real life. Begging looks way different. A lot of players asked for proofs like this a lot of times during iMU's history, and I didn't see anyone call it begging, up until now for some reason.

You mean because i didnt raise it when i was an EM and MOD, so i cant raise it now too?
I'm very disappointed with you, Tobias. I said i'd love to contribute to make the game better and that's how you treat me? By blaming me that all i do is just because of Viola although i explained 100 times that this thread is nothing but a suggestion?
This will be my last words in here. I wish everyone luck, and heal in real life.
Peace.

Miyeon outs.

 

[Tobλ]

You mean because i didnt raise it when i was an EM and MOD, so i cant raise it now too?
I'm very disappointed with you, Tobias. I said i'd love to contribute to make the game better and that's how you treat me? By blaming me that all i do is just because of Viola although i explained 100 times that this thread is nothing but a suggestion?
This will be my last words in here. I wish everyone luck, and heal in real life.
Peace.

Miyeon outs.

I was merely saying what it looks like from my point of view, I did not blame anyone. I did not discredit the suggestion itself, I simply saw the replies that went back and forth between you and Lui, including some others as well, and decided to point them out. It was open to discussion and genuinely argue like people. It's even stated in my reply. Didn't close the thread either.

 

[Lux0R]

Hi,
If someone asks, I closed the thread because the person who started it clearly lost the will to continue it (deactivating the account).
At the same time, the staff sufficiently imo answered all questions asked here and, as we can conclude, it was to some extent a suggestion at a personal level.
Cheers!

 

[Tobλ]

fu